Was God Blasphemed on Atonement Q & A?

{WARNING: LONG BLOG POST AHEAD}

That is one person's assessment. I was all set to blog about In Adam All Die when I came across a blog that took exception with a lyric from "Atonement Q & A". The line in question is on verse 2 when I say,

"Adoption means God is now my Father/ I got the hottest Poppa and by the Spirit holler 'Abba'

The objection this brother (named Joel) had is with the phrase "hottest Poppa". You can find his blog post here. On Twitter, Joel referred to the phrase as "irreverent blasphemy". After reading the comments on the blog, I decided to respond, which you can read below. He responded to me here. After a few exchanges, it became clear that he was no longer interested in having the discussion. I asked some questions that he never answered. Finally, I made another comment that he refused to post, citing his comment policy and saying it was too long. When I offered to edit the comment, Joel never responded.

One good thing about the technological age we live in is that discussions don't have to end when one blogger decides he no longer wants to try to back up his claims of blasphemy. Since I have a blog also, I decided to copy and paste our exchange, while including the response that I made to him that he refused to post on his blog.

The reason I decided to post it here is because I thought this would be a good opportunity for the readers of this blog to see the kinds of arguments that some people make about Christian hip-hop. I commend this brother for his zeal for the name of God, but I do believe that it is a zeal not according to knowledge. A few things struck me about our exchange. First, it seems that our age of Twitter/ Facebook-status-updates-in-140-characters-or-less has negatively affected our ability to reason and to follow arguments to their logical conclusions. In our era, a person can simply make assertions and then refuse to substantiate them because the blog format simply won't allow for in-depth reasoning and critical analysis. Second, I'm convinced that his issues with the lyric are rooted in shallow thinking as it relates to cultural distinctions and a failure to properly and Biblically think through some of the implications of linguistic diversity. But that's my opinion. You can decide for yourself.

Here's the exchange:

Hello Brothers,

This is Shai Linne. I’m the guy who wrote the lyric in question. I’m sorry to join the discussion so late, but I just learned of it today. First I want to say that I appreciate the concern of the original post. God’s commands are to be taken seriously and if a violation of the third commandment has occurred, I believe it should be addressed. Also, I actually don’t have a problem with people publicly responding to things that have been released publicly. So I commend the writer of the original post for taking a stand for the truth of God and desiring that His named be regarded as holy.

With that said, I believe some assumptions have been made, as evidenced throughout the comments.

Joel said:

“It is a blessed thing Manfred [a commenter on the original post], for God’s children to call Him Abba, Father. However, the phrase “I got the hottest poppa” is overwhelmingly a non-reverent way to appeal to listeners”

My response:

Just so you know, my purpose in using the phrase was not to appeal to listeners because I think it sounds “cool”. Nor was my purpose to whet the world’s sinful, fleshly appetites. In fact, this song was written for Christians as a way to impart gospel truth in a memorable fashion for the purpose of catechesis. With that said, if you are going to take such issue with my use of the phrase “hottest Poppa”, we should probably make sure we’re on the same page and that nothing has been lost in translation, so to speak. Language is funny like that sometimes. As we all know, two people can use the same exact word and mean two completely different things. Therefore, I would be remiss if I didn’t ask you to tell me what you think I actually meant by “hottest Poppa”. What’s your understanding of that particular colloquialism? I look forward to hearing your answer.

Here is Joel's response to my post:

Shai,

I don’t know you, but you claim, profess to be a Christian. Ok, this is what you need to know about the name of God. I believe the colloquialism ’hottest poppa” should not be used in reference to God. He reveals His Names in Scripture, but we do not get to assign names to Him, and His name is not to be made common. Ever. In any way. Period. When God revealed His name to Moses on Mt. Sinai, we read:

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” Exodus 3:14

He said that, brother, because there is nothing else in the entire universe to compare Himself to. He is unique, one of a kind, holy – and that is what the term means. “I AM WHO I AM” precludes any comparison to other gods. The term ‘hottest’ implies one (or more) of many does it not? Is our God just one of many god similar to Him, and He is ‘the hottest’ of them all? Or, is He thrice holy because there is none other like Him?

When you refer to our God as something that can be compared to another, say, for example, a man like Hugh Jackman, Hollywood actor, who has also been called ‘the hottest poppa’ you, perhaps mistakenly, malign the name of our great God, creator of heaven and earth, by referring to Him as the world refers to others. The Spirit of Christ in us cries out ‘Abba, Father! (Gal 4:6), but never do we find the Spirit of Christ in Scripture crying out “Hot Poppa!” Get it?

There is no other to compare Him to! When you refer to God with terms used of another, you declare Him to be not unique and holy, but just another of many. That is my thought on the matter. God bless you and yours Whom He has given you. I pray your skills as a musician, artistry and witness will be a blessing upon many in the time God has given you to live upon this earth.

And this is how I followed up with my next post:

Joel,

Thank you for your response. I am in whole-hearted agreement with you about the uniqueness of God and His incomparable majesty. In fact, I heartily “Amen” the majority of your post. However, with all the true things that you said, you never actually addressed my original question: In my original post, I said:

“Therefore, I would be remiss if I didn’t ask you to tell me what you think I actually meant by “hottest Poppa”. What’s your understanding of that particular colloquialism? I look forward to hearing your answer.”

You never addressed this in your response. Words are useful only inasmuch as they convey meaning, or meaning is ascribed to them. Perhaps an example might be helpful. Is it ever appropriate to refer to God as “Gospodin”? What about “Domnul”? What do you think? Well, our Croatian and Romanian brothers and sisters would say it’s very appropriate, since those are the words translated “Lord” in their respective languages.

My point is that we can’t answer the question of the propriety or impropriety of the terms until we actually know the meaning of the terms.

As a sidenote:

Joel, you used the following argument in your last post:

“When you refer to God with terms used of another, you declare Him to be not unique and holy, but just another of many.”

This is not a sound argument, brother. For instance, the term “king” has often been used of others, including Elvis Presley. Will the fact that it’s been used of Elvis keep you from using it in reference to God? The Bible itself uses the same word in reference to both earthly kings and God Himself. A simple comparison of Psalm 21:7 and Psalm 24:8 will show one of many Biblical examples of this. This does not at all take away from God’s uniqueness or holiness.

But that is not my main point right now. Right now, I’m just asking you to answer a simple question. Please tell me what you think I meant by the use of the phrase “hottest Poppa”. Thanks brother.

grace and peace,

shai

And Joel's response:

Shai,

You’re quite welcome. As for what you meant or your motive, I will leave that to the Lord. I can only imagine your intentions were that of praise. In other words, what you meant or your motives is not really my concern because neither will influence the minds of those who hear what has been recorded. People will not be influenced by intent, but they may be by what they hear and see brother. That is why behavior reflects our true belief. That is why the issue is not your intentions, but rather addressing our God in ways that I believe are irreverent.

If you had recorded ‘hot’ or ‘great’, that would be one thing. Yet ‘hottest’ implies, again, among many. How many Creator’s of heaven and earth are there brother? Again, ‘hottest’ appears to be an attempt to make the God of Scripture ‘hip’ and acceptable to the hearers of your music. I am not saying that was your intent. It is simply the way it sounds. Aside from our God, the Sovereign Creator and Sustainer of all things, there is no other god.

“‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.” – Deut. 32:39

SDG,

Joel

This was Joel's last response to me. My response below was never published due to his comment policy. Here's what the readers of his blog would have seen had he decided to post it.

Joel,

Thank you for being willing to dialogue on this issue. I want to address some of the things you said in your last response to me.

You said:

"As for what you meant or your motive, I will leave that to the Lord. I can only imagine your intentions were that of praise. In other words, what you meant or your motives is not really my concern... People will not be influenced by intent... the issue is not your intentions, but rather addressing our God in ways that I believe are irreverent."

My response:

Just to be clear, I never asked you to tell me what my intentions or motives were in writing the lyric. I asked you to simply define the words I used. Huge difference. I asked you to tell me WHAT I said, not WHY I said it. (I use capitals for emphasis here, not to convey emotion. No anger at all towards you, brother)

In hermeneutics, it would be similar to asking an exegete to distinguish between the correct interpretation of a Hebrew or Greek word and the authorial intent of the biblical writers. For example, I'm sure you know that the Apostle John often used the word "kosmos", which is translated "world" in our English translations. I trust that you also know that the context determines whether John's intent was to speak of:

1) Planet earth, as in John 8:23

2) Many people, as in John 12:19

3) All nations, as in John 4:42

4) The world system in opposition to God and under Satanic, godless influence, as in 1 John 2:15

That's not to mention the many other ways that that particular word can be interpreted. It would be irresponsible exegesis for an expositor to say "John used the word 'world'! It doesn't matter what he meant!" We could not properly interpret Scripture if we were to use the reasoning you're using with me here. In fact, if the actual meaning of words was not important, we couldn't comprehend literature at all. Dictionaries would no longer be necessary in that case.

This is my main problem with your original post. You have declared my use of a phrase to be a violation of the 3rd commandment. And you have yet to tell me the actual meaning of the phrase.

Interestingly, in your first post, you said this of God:

"...He is unique..."

My response:

Using the same reasoning you're using with me, I could say, "Brother Joel, the Bible never uses the word 'unique' in reference to God. You are being irreverent. 'Unique' has been used to describe Michael Jackson's singing style. It is irreverent to use the same word used of a worldly pop-star to describe our awesome, majestic God. And by the way, Joel, it doesn't matter what you actually meant when you used the word 'unique'".

How would you respond to that, brother?

You threw me for a loop with one other thing you said:

You said:

"If you had recorded ‘hot’ or ‘great’, that would be one thing. Yet ‘hottest’ implies, again, among many. How many Creator’s of heaven and earth are there brother?"

My response:

I wasn't expecting this. "Hot" would be ok, but "Hottest" is the problem? Interesting...So then, your issue is that I described God using a superlative, therefore implying that that He's one among many? I don't think I've ever heard that particular argument before.

The first thing that comes to my mind is that the Scriptures often refer to God as the "Most High", which is another way of saying the "highest". In other words, many are highly exalted but none are exalted higher than God. In no way does the description "Most High" take away from God's uniqueness. On the contrary, superlatives (by definition) distinguish the one spoken of from all others who either claim to be or are thought to be in their category. This can be demonstrated with a few simple questions: Who is the humblest person who has ever lived? Who is the wisest teacher this world has ever known? Who is the greatest king to ever walk the earth? We both know the answer is the same to each question. Is God dishonored in any way by it? Of course not.

Finally, I noticed that you never addressed 2 things from my last post:

1. Is it ever appropriate to refer to God as “Gospodin”? What about “Domnul”?

What do you think?

2. Joel, you used the following argument in your last post:

“When you refer to God with terms used of another, you declare Him to be not unique and holy, but just another of many.”

This is not a sound argument, brother. For instance, the term “king” has often been used of others, including Elvis Presley. Will the fact that it’s been used of Elvis keep you from using it in reference to God?The Bible itself uses the same word in reference to both earthly kings and God Himself. A simple comparison of Psalm 21:7 and Psalm 24:8 will show one of many Biblical examples of this. This does not at all take away from God’s uniqueness or holiness.

Question: Are you still holding to the following line of reasoning?

“When you refer to God with terms used of another, you declare Him to be not unique and holy, but just another of many.”

If so, why?

To All Who Have Commented

Please know that I am not at all offended by Joel's comments. In fact, I find it refreshing that there is someone willing to stand up for the honor of God's name. That is all too rare these days. I join Joel in his desire that our Father's name be hallowed. I believe he is in error in this particular application of the principle, which is why I responded. However, I rejoice & praise God for the high regard that Joel has for God's name.

grace and peace,

shai

So, there you have it. Do you have any thoughts about this discussion?

The Atonement & Storiez Revisited

Thanks to all who responded to my last post. As I said, I'm working on a new project, which will be my fourth CD. More details to come about that in future posts. I'm not sure how other artists work, but a big part of moving forward for me is going back to past projects and thinking through what I did, what was going on in my mind at the time, considering feedback people have given me and then incorporating what I've gathered into future works. In one sense, it's a way of gaining closure on the past. I hope that doesn't sound too "artsy" lol.

In the theater world, there's an idea called "through-line". The though-line of a play is that which threads the story or a character together. I've tried to incorporate this idea into all of my work. I like for there to be a clear thread that knits together individual verses on songs, songs on albums and from album to album as well. Continuity would be another word I could use. So, to give a some of examples:

Through-line Within a Song

On "As The Hour Draws Near", from Storiez, each verse and chorus was structured the same exact way, with slight modifications to make it particular to each character in the song. If you remember, there were three main characters in that song: The first verse was a Christian who was struggling with assurance of salvation, played by Evangel of Christcentric. The second verse was a Christian who was confident in the Lord and eager to enter into His heavenly reward, played by Ant. The third verse was an atheist, played by me. Each character begins with a chorus:

Evangel:

As the hour draws near to take my last breath

I’m not quite sure how much time I have left

I’m walking the path of all the strugglers who died

And I’m in fear of what awaits me on the other side

Ant:

As the hour draws near to take my last breath

I’m not quite sure how much time I have left

I’m walking the path of all my brothers who died

And I’m prepared for what awaits me on the other side

Me:

As the hour draws near to take my last breath

I’m not quite sure how much time I have left

I’m walking the path of all the others who died

And I don’t care what awaits me on the other side

Towards the end of each verse is a refrain that each character says:

Evangel:

Sin was strong and my deadliest foe

Steady wrong- am I ready to go?

I pray to God because it’s hard to accept- my heart’s heavy, you know

I’m not sure if I’m ready to go

Ant:

My life was long and I’m ready to go

I stood strong and I’m ready to go

I can’t wait to sing along with the throng up in heaven, you know

It’s where I belong- I’m ready to go

Me:

Because he’s wrong and I’m ready to go

Son, I’m strong, yo I’m ready to go

If it’s on then it’s on- bring it on

I’m ready to go, let’s get it on son, I’m ready to go

Structuring the song this way was an attempt to maintain the continuity, or through-line of the song, while leaving room for the individual characters to express the differences in their outlooks. This would be an example of though-line within a song. If you listen for it in other songs ("Were You There", "Alone", "Memoirs" are a few examples), you'll see it's something that I often do.

Through-Line Between Songs on an Album

In the modern world of digital downloads, itunes and ringtones, many people no longer by entire Cds, but a song here and there. That's unfortunate to me. I'm from the old-school when people made albums with a clear theme in such a way that you needed to hear all the songs to put any one song in its proper thematic context. That's part of my artistic DNA, so I try to incorporate it into my music. A few examples of this from each project:

The Solus Christus Project

1. Intro and Outro

2. The last line of "Dark Night of the Soul" going into "My Portion"

3. The reoccurring flutes throughout the album (This is a musical through-line as opposed to a lyrical though-line. The intentionality is the same though. With each album, there has been one instrument that is prominent throughout, though subtle at times. You really have to be listening for it)

The Atonement

1. The sermon and conversational interludes

2. The theme of the cross (each song representing the necessity of the Atonement, the Atonement itself, or the implications of the Atonement)

3. The subdued, dark tone of each song from both a delivery standpoint and a musical standpoint

Storiez

1. The Narrator

2. "Wake Up, You're Alive" towards the beginning and "Wake Up Revealed" towards the end

3. "Alone Foreshadowed" coming 5 songs before "Alone"

Through-Line Between Albums

This is something that I've always enjoyed about some of my favorite artists. I love hearing lines on new projects that take me back to a line that was said in a previous work. It's another way of connecting the past with the present. I also see it as a reward for those who have been listening longer. I've tried to do this in a few ways. Some would be referencing my previous works. Others would be referencing other Lamp Mode projects or things I've been involved with. A couple of examples:

1. The wording of the last words of the outros on TSCP and The Atonement

2. The last words of the Storiez intro is the same exact sample from the beginning of "Angelz" on TSCP

3. The ladies on "Work It Out" from Storiez saying lines from songs on "TSCP".

4. Often incorporating Timothy Brindle quotes in my work.

5. Each person on "Testify" from Storiez saying a line from a previous testimonial song (Verse 1- Ambassador's "Thug Joint" off "Christology"; Verse 2- My verse from ""My Life Cypha", off Cross Movement's "Higher Definition"; Verse 3- Da Truth's "My Story" off "Moment of Truth")

Where We Go From Here

Anyway, I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here. The reason I'm writing this post is to let you know that as a way of getting closure on the past for me and giving you insight into the thought process behind each song, I'll be blogging through each song from The Atonement and Storiez, answering questions along the way about particular songs. This is what I did for The Listener's Guide that I made for TSCP. I'll look at each song from a musical, lyrical and theological standpoint, along with things you might not have caught without listening closely. Hopefully, it will enhance your enjoyment of the projects. I'll be blogging about other things along the way, but this is one series you can expect in the upcoming weeks.

First up will be an overview of The Atonement and a look at "In Adam All Die"

grace and peace,

shai

Is Anyone Still Here?

It's been a while since my last post. The past 7 months have been really crazy, with so many transitions. I began a pastoral internship, came down with a rare form of vertigo that literally had my world spinning for a week, got engaged, finished the internship, did concerts and conferences in Hawaii and California, left the country a few times, got married, moved to Washington D.C., took a cross-country trip, got married, moved into a new apartment, got married, bought a car and, by the way, did I mention that I got married?

My beautiful bride's name is Blair and we were married on July 10., so it's been about a month. All I can say about that is that the Lord's mercy is more profound than I could possibly imagine. He has already blessed me in more ways than I can count through her. I clearly got the "better end of the deal"! I can't wait to see how the Lord will use marriage to shape both of us for His glory. I'm also excited about being able to serve the Lord as a husband and Lord willing, as a father someday.

So anyway, I have a lot going on, including working on new music and other projects. There's a lot on my heart and mind that has built up over the last 7 months. I wrestled with whether or not to start something new, but then I thought that maybe there are people who still check in on this blog from time to time. So before I post and get the response of crickets in cyberspace, I thought I'd ask...

Is anyone still here?

If you are, leave a comment and let me know if you think it's worthwhile for me to continue this blog. Thanks!

grace and peace,

shai